The Families of Richard John Guy
1857
Richard John Guy was born in 1855, in Limerick City, Ireland to Francis Guy and Mary Ann Guy (nee Canter). Richard was the oldest son in a family of seven children.

He married three times and had at least 12 children by his first two wives, but none with his third wife who divorced him not long after the marriage. It is possible, but unlikely, that another child was born in Kumara, New Zealand in the 1890s,.

Richard appears to have been a troubled person. Coming from a wealthy Cork family, he abandoned the family and left Ireland shortly after the deaths of his father and his first wife Mary Jane Mayne in 1882. Leaving his children in Ireland he then apparently travelled to England and on to the Argentina where in 1884 he married Eleanor Josselyn. After the death of their second son in Argentina, they returned briefly to England before emigrating to New Zealand, first to a farm in Taranaki and then to the gold fields of the West Coast where he was a labourer. Eleanor died there after giving birth and again he abandoned the family and moved to Christchurch where he married a third time to Emily Marshall (nee Harrison). Emily divorced him shortly afterwards and Richard lived in Christchurch, working as a gardener and labourer until his death in Ashburton in 1913.

 
G2 Richard John Guy (ca 1855 - 1913) =(1) 1877, Mary Jane Mayne (ca 1859-1882)
=(2) 1884, Eleanor Josselyn (1858-1898)
=(3) 1899, Emily Elizabeth Marshall (ca 1871-ca 1954)
 
 
G1 (1) Mary Jane Mayne
Anne Guy (1877- )
Robert Francis Guy (1878- )
Percy Claude Guy (1880- )
Violet Constance Guy (1881- )
and
(2) Eleanor Josselyn
John Canter Guy (1885- )
Cecil Guy (1887-1888)
Horace Seattle Guy (1888- )
Thomas Gerald Guy (1890- )
Eleanor Kate "Nell" Guy (1891- )
Mary Henrietta Guy (1893- )
Bertha Doris Guy (1895- )
Josselyn "Jock" Guy (1898- )
 
Marriage to Mary Jane Mayne, 1877
He married Mary Jane Mayne at the Parish Church of St Luke, Cork City on 27 February 1877 in Co. Cork.

Richard and Mary lived in Cork and Limerick as Richard worked in the family printing business, first at Guy and Co in Cork and then from about 1880 at Guy and McQuaide in Limerick (possibly as manager).

Guy, Richard John and Mayne, Mary.
Marriage Certificate (Irish) No. 78. At the Parish Church of St Luke, City of Cork. Richard John, age 'full', profession stationer, of 58 Sundays Well Road, Cork. Father Francis Guy, stationer. Mary Jane Mayne, 'minor', of Patrick's Hill, father Robert Mayne, Alderman. Married according to the 'rites and ceremonies of the Church of Ireland, by licence'. Rector M. Archdall. Witnesses Thomas J. Harley and Richard Burrowes (brothers-in-law).

Cork Constitution, Thurs March 1, 1877 (Source: Colindale N'paper Library) Feb 27 at St Lukes Church by the Rev Mervyn Archdall, Richard John Guy Esq, eldest son of Francis Guy Esq, Verulam, to Mary Jane, second daughter of Robert Mayne Esq, Alderman, No.7 Patrick's Hill.

First Family, 1877 to 1881
Richard and Mary had 4 children in Cork City and Limerick City.
 
G2 Richard John Guy (ca 1857 - 1913) =(1) 1877, Mary Jane Mayne (ca 1859-1882)
 
 
G1 Anne Guy (6 Nov 1877- )
Robert Francis Guy (2 Dec 1878 - 2 Oct 1927)
Percy Claude Guy (3 Feb 1880 - 16 Feb 1950)
Violet Constance Guy (23 Apr 1881 - 16 Jan 1971)
Death of Mary, 1882
Mary Jane Mayne died in Cork on 27 January 1882 of Brights Disease, a severe disease of the kidneys, which she had suffered for about 8 months before her death of "cardiac effusion".

She was only about 23 and the children ranged from 9 months to 5 years old. Richard's father Francis also died in 1882 and so it must have been a very difficult time for him and may help explain why he left Ireland.

"GUY - On the 27th Instant at her father's residence, 7 Patricks Hill, Mary Jane, wife of R J Guy, and dearly loved daughter of Robert and Anne Mayne aged 23 years. Funeral on Monday morning at nine o' clock for St Anne's Shandon. (The same notice was also in the Cork Constitution, and was published again on Mon Jan 30, 1882)"
Argentina and Marriage to Eleanor Josselyn, 1882 to 1884
After Mary's death Richard left his children with his sister and probably moved to either England or Argentina. We next find him in Buenos Aires where in 1884 he married Eleanor Josselyn. Exactly how and where they met is unknown;
  1. one possibility was through Eleanor's sister, Bertha Josselyn, who had married Joseph Suche from Limerick in 1879. The children of Joseph Suche's first marriage were about Richard's age and so it is possible the families knew each other in Limerick.
  2. another is a connection between the Guy family and Eleanor's mother, Mary's family, the Stewards from Great Yarmouth, Norfolk. The connection is via the Travers family. The Travers were from Cork, and three Travers married Mary's uncle and two of her second cousins. It seems very likely that the Travers would have known the Guys.

Richard and Eleanor were married on 5 August 1884 at St. John's Anglican Church, Buenos Aires, Argentina by the Rev Arthur George Lennox Robinson, the husband of her sister Augusta "Gussie" Josselyn. Augusta and Arthur were resident in Buenos Aires where Arthur was employed at the College of St John (Falklands Island Diocese, 1882-5).

It seems strange that they married in Argentina, so far from their families. The most likely explanation would seem to be that the Josselyn family disapproved of the marriage and that they "eloped". Augusta was in Buenos Aires in 1882 and so may have offered refuge.

Their family in New Zealand believe that Eleanor followed Richard to Argentina. It is known that she conducted Bible lessons in Buenos Aires and according to family stories "was presented with a signed Prayer Book by the Bishop of the Cathedral there", however again this seems to have been embroidered as the inscription in the Prayer Book says

Eleanor Josselyn Easter / 84, Buenos Aires Sunday School from Mr Perry.
[Easter was 13th April 1884]

From the excellent transcriptions of the English Churches in Buenos Aires (see Ref 4), there is no record of a Mr Perry as a church official. It is not possible to identify Mr Perry as, while there were Perrys living in the area (mainly Rosario) earlier and later, none seem to fit this Mr Perry. One unlikely possibility is that he was a visiting Bishop, however if that was the case, it is unlikely the transcription would describe him as Mr Perry.

Given the issues the family faced it is understandable, but unfortunately the New Zealand family's recollection of Eleanor and Richard's early history has proven to be largely incorrect. For example 2:

Richard was from Ireland (supposedly from Limerick; little is known of his background but it is told that this father was in the cattle business, rumored to be the first person to introduce the Hereford breed stud cattle into Argentina.

This is certainly wrong as Richard's father lived in Ireland and died there in 1882. Richard and Eleanor did live on a ranch in Argentina however, and this could be the basis of the story. Another possibility is that another relative on the Guy or Josselyn side was connected with the cattle industry.

John Hallum's research into 'The History of Hereford Cattle' (Ref 92 ) records the first of the breed being imported into Argentina by Senor San Martin in 1858; there is no mention of the Guy family in this publication, but it does refer primarily to the exporting and importing owners and breeders, whereas the Guys may have been involved as agents. The Society's records for that period are no longer in existence.

A second story was:

Richard was a medical doctor in Ireland who had been struck off the register resulting in his emigration Ireland.

There is no truth in this, as Richard worked in the family business in Ireland, managing the Limerick shop.

From the records of St John's, Buenos Aires (see Ref 4)

Reg. No.542
Date of marriage5/8/1884
Man's nameGuy, Richard John
Native ofIreland
Resident ofBuenos Aires
Woman's nameJosselyn, Eleanor
Native ofEngland
Resident ofBuenos Aires
WitnessesW. N. Watson, J. M. Mackern, Augusta Robertson
Officiating MinisterA. G. Lennox Robertson
Married afterBanns (2)
Marriage took place inSt John's Church
Partido De Lincoln, Argentina, 1885 to 1887
In 1885 Richard was an Estanciero (a gentleman rancher) in Partido De Lincoln, Argentina (from their first son's christening record).

("Lincoln Parish", named after Abraham Lincoln the US president) is one of 114 political divisions called parishes in the Buenos Aires Province, Argentina. It is center left on the map, about 150km west of Buenos Aires and 578,154 hectares (5,781,540 sq km) in area. Lincoln was first settled in 1865, the main town of Lincoln was developed from about 1884 and it wasn't until 1893 that the railway arrived. When Richard and Eleanor arrived in 1884/85 it was still frontier territory. 3

A map that I have of the parish from that era does not show a Guy Estancia, possibly it was too small but more likely it was drawn before or after their short period of living there.

Richard and Eleanor had two children in the Argentina:

 
G2 Richard John Guy (ca 1857 - 1913) =(2) 1884, Eleanor Josselyn (1858-1898)
 
 
G1 John Canter Guy (28 May 1885 - 24 Nov 1967)
Charles Cecil Guy (2 May 1887 - 5 Jan 1888)
 

John's birth records are shown opposite.

The photograph below is one of several that I have of the Guy's Estancia.

Guy Farm Argentina
The Guy farm in Partido de Lincoln.
In two of them, there are two men who by their stances are obviously at ease in comparison with the local workers. In one of these photographs, while it is not clear, the features of the two can be seen sufficiently well to match the two men in the photograph below. I believe them to be Richard and his brother-in-law James Arthur Waylen Josselyn. James did not marry until some years later and so he could well have be visiting the Guys and his other sister Augusta. Another possibility is that the Josselyns had an interest in the farm and the two were co-managing it.
From the records of St John's, Buenos Aires (see Ref 4)
When born 28/5/1885
When baptised 8/7/1885
Name of candidate Guy, John Cantor
Father's first names Richard John
Mother's first names Eleanor
Where born Partido de Lincoln
Occupation Estanciero
Officiating Minister A. G. Lennox Robertson
Birth and Death of Cecil, 1888
Reg. No. 138
When born 2/5/1887
When baptised 25/5/1887
Child's Names Guy, Charles Cecil
Father' s First Names Richard John
Mother's First Names Eleanor
Born in San José de Flores
Quality, Trade or Profession Estanciero
Officiating Minister AGLR (Arthur Lennox Robinson)
From the records of St Peter's Anglican Church, Flores, Buenos Aires (See Ref 4)
Charles Cecil was born on the 2nd May 1887 in Flores, on the outskirts of Buenos Aires. The husband of Eleanor's sister Augusta, Arthur Lennox Robertson was Vicar there from 1866 to 1894, presumably Eleanor went to stay with them when the baby was due.

Charles Cecil died only 8 months later on 5 Jan 1888. Was he the child that the family history says was killed by a horse?

.........Mr Guy is not at present very active on his limbs both of his legs having been badly injured some time ago by a fall from his horse.........
From a later article in a New Zealand newspaper Richard had a serious accident falling from a horse which probably occurred at about this time. Was this the same incident? Perhaps this is why they left Argentina. The full article is further down the page.
Return to England, circa 1888
Richard, Eleanor and John left the Argentina and returned to England between the 5th January 1888, when Charles Cecil died, and August 1888 when their 3rd son Horace was born in England.

This photo of the Josselyn family must have been taken in England at this time as Eleanor (front left) is wearing a wedding ring and does not appear to be pregnant. By the state of the grass growth and the weather it was probably taken in the Autumn of 1888, shortly after Horace was born.

Josselyn Family
While the people in this photo were not identified, several are clearly identifiable from other photos.
Rear l to r: (?), Thomas Hallum, James Josselyn (?), Richard Guy (?) and Joseph Suche (?).
Front l to r: (?), Henrietta Hallum, Mary Josselyn (nee Steward) (?), Bertha Suche and Eleanor Guy.
Birth of Horace, 1887 to 1889
While in England Richard and Eleanor had a third son, Horace Seattle.

In 1888, when Horace was born, the family was living at . Nearby on this map can be seen North Hill (500 meters to the north), where Charles and Mary were living by 1891, Oxford Road (400 meters to the west), where James was living in 1901 and Creffield Road (400 meters to the west), where Rosalie was living in 1891.

 
G2 Richard John Guy (ca 1857 - 1913) =(2) 1884, Eleanor Josselyn (1858-1898)
 
 
G1 Horace Seattle Guy (27 Aug 1888 - 14 Aug 1958)
 
Again the family history is wrong; the first version says he was born on the ship traveling to New Zealand, a second story says he was born in Seattle (after the name).

Where the name Seattle originated from is unknown and the birth certificate simply has him as Horace Guy. Seattle is quite an unusual name, probably of American Indian origin, and doesn't seem to occur much out of the USA - perhaps there is truth in the story that the family in some way travelled via Seattle? Another possibility was that the ship from Argentina to England was called the Seattle.

Emigration to New Zealand on the RMS Kaikoura, 1889
The next firm sighting of the family is on 4 May 1889 when Richard emigrated to New Zealand from London on the R.M.S. Kaikoura, with Eleanor, John and Horace arriving at Wellington on 17 June 1889 (see newspaper articles below).
RMS Kaikoura
RMS Kaikoura in Wellington Harbour
RMS Kaikoura
The arrival of the Kaikoura in Wellington
(Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXVIII, Issue 8501, 18 June 1889, Page 2)
The New Zealand Times
Wed, June 19 1889

ARRIVAL OF THE R.M.S. KAIKOURA,
FROM LONDON,

The New Zealand Shipping Company's R.M.S. Kaikoura from London, via Plymouth, Teneriffe, the Cape and Hobart, arrived in harbour at 7.30 am yesterday, the run from Hobart having occupied considerably longer than usual owing to the bad weather encountered. She left Plymouth on the 4th May, at 1.48 pm, and met with fine weather to arrival at Teneriffe, on the 9th at 3 am. Coaled, and left the same day at 1.10 pm, and had light NE. trades and fine weather till off Cape Verde on the 12th, then encountered SE trades in lat. 5deg N; crossed the Equator on the 15th, and had light trades and fine weather till the 21st, freshening to strong breeze with heavy confused sea. This continued until midnight of the 23rd, when it gradually moderated, and arrived at Table Bay on the 25th at 4pm; left same day at 10.15 pm, and experienced moderate northerly winds and cloudy weather till 1st June thence hard squalls and high seas for the next two days, afterward moderate westerly winds to the 7th, when S.E. winds and foggy weather set in lasting to the 9th; since then moderate northerly winds and fine weather to arrival at Hobart on the 12th, at 8.20 am. Resumed voyage same day at 11 pm, with light northerly winds and fine weather till passing Tasman Island then experienced high confused sea with strong N.E. wind, which had increased by midnight of the 14th to fresh gale with high sea; thence light easterly winds and fine weather. Passed Cape Farewell at 10 pm on Monday, and the Heads at 7.0 am yesterday.

Shipping notices (Tuesday June 17 1889):

Kaikoura, R.M.S, 2885 tons, Crutchley, from London, Plymouth, Teneriffe, Capetown and Hobart. Passengers – .... second saloon - ... Guy and 2 boys .... and R. Guy ....

NZ Shipping Company records (4293/folder MS34):
List of Passengers per RMS Kaikoura for Wellington, to sail from Plymouth 4th May 1889
Passage cost, 82 13 9
Destination, New Plymouth
Guy R.J., E, J and H
From Wellington to Taranaki, 1889
On arrival in Wellington, they immediately embarked on the SS Wanaka, a coastal vessel regularly traveling from Wellington to Auckland and arrived at New Plymouth, Taranaki on 19 June 1889 (see opposite).
Taranaki Herald 20_6_1889
Taranaki Herald, 20-6-1889
Recruited?
The following stories imply that the Guys were attracted to New Zealand by an immigration recruitment agent working for someone in Taranaki.

Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXVIII, Issue 8506, 24 June 1889, Page 2

Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXVIII, Issue 8526, 17 July 1889, Page 2
The Purchase of a Farm in Inglewood, 1889
On 26 July 1889, Richard purchased at least two properties totalling 226 acres (from later evidence there were probably 4 properties totalling 455 acres) at Hursthouse Road near the town of Inglewood in Taranaki (south of New Plymouth) from a Mr W. Old.
Inglewood property
Inglewood property
The farm was situated just north of Inglewood.
Farming in Inglewood, 1889
Shortly afterwards Richard rescued a Thomas Old from a Bull (see opposite), Thomas's brother William Old is probably the W. Old that Richard purchased the land from.

Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXVIII, Issue 8526, 21 October 1889, Page 2
Inglewood
[From our own correspondent]
October 19 - Mr Robert Old, who resides on the Hursthouse Road, near here, had a very narrow escape of being killed by a bull this afternoon. It occurred in the following manner:- Mr R Old's brother William sold a six year old bull to Mr Guy, a gentleman who also resides on the Hursthouse Road; the animal got loose, and Mr R Old went to help Mr Guy tie the beast up, but as Mr Old was about to attach a to the ring in the balls nose, the animal suddenly charged him, knocking him down by striking him on the lower part of the body, causing a lengthened bruise from there to his left breast. Whilst Mr Old was lying helpless on his back on the ground, the infuriated beast was about to finish him, and were it not for the presence of mind on the part of Mr Guy, who went to Mr Old's assistance by striking the bull with the handle of a whip on the side of the head, caused him to turn away from Mr Old, or he most certainly would have been killed. Mr Guy thus put his own life in danger to safe his friend. Remembering that Mr Guy is not at present very active on his limbs both of his legs having been badly injured some time ago by a fall from his horse. I should think that the saving of a man's life in this manner deserves some recognition by the Humane Society. Mr Old has handled this Bull scores of times before, and on those occasions found him quiet. Bulls are not to be trusted, and persons should be more careful of them.

As mentioned above, the reference to a serious injury points to the reason for them leaving Argentina.


Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXVIII, Issue 8618, 1 November 1889, Page 3

A number of newspaper articles show that Richard and Eleanor were very active in the community. The roads were obviously in very bad condition, this is one of a number of similar articles..


Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXVIII, Issue 8641, 29 November 1889, Page 2

Eleanor must have been an excellent singer as this clipping from a local newspaper for December 23 1889 shows.

..........Inglewood and District Schools Fete..........The teachers, as well as the School committee, deserve credit for the manner in which they carried out the programme..............[there was a] song by Mrs. Guy. Here I must make special mention, as I have formerly done of Mrs. Thomas Drake's song. Mrs. Guy is certainly an excellent singer, every word being articulated in a manner that proves she has been well trained, and I am glad to say that she is an addition to our district of no mean order, and I trust that we shall hear her often.........
In 1890 Richard was the Chairman of committees such as this one which organised an extremely large sports event to which people from all over Taranaki attended ..

Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXIX, Issue 8706, 17 February 1890, Page 4

Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXIX, Issue 8722, 7 March 1890, Page 2

and was immortalised in a poem ...

Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXIX, Issue 8724, 10 March 1890, Page 3

Just before the sports event, their farm was badly effected by a scrub fire which burnt a huge area in Taranaki...


Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXIX, Issue 8720, 5 March 1890, Page 2

Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXIX, Issue 8737, 25 March 1890, Page 2

... which may have severely reduced their income from the farm, as shortly after their fortune appeared to wane.
Sale of Farm, 1891
In November of 1890 this notice appeared in the Taranaki Herald ...

Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXIX, Issue 8939, 22 November 1890, Page 2

... followed the next week by this ...


Taranaki Herald, Volume XXXIX, Issue 8944, 28 November 1890, Page 2

Strangely, they did not appear to have left New Plymouth until July in 1891 ...


Taranaki Herald, Volume XL, Issue 9125, 4 July 1891, Page 2
The answer may be that the farm was larger than we supposed as these appeared in October 1891 ..

Taranaki Herald, Volume XL, Issue 9205, 16 October 1891, Page 2

Taranaki Herald, Volume XL, Issue 9205, 16 October 1891, Page 2

... followed by this ...

Taranaki Herald, Volume XL, Issue 9218, 31 October 1891, Page 4
Looking at the deeds, two properties were sold to Mr Coldwell (a publican of Inglewood) on 20 November 1891, totalling 227 acres. The earlier articles listed the farm at 455 acres, implying there were probably two other blocks of the same size sold earlier.

Taking Richard's later history into account, at first it seemed likely that the land was transferred to the publican to cover drinking debts. However, the second sale points to some sort of financial crisis having occurred in their lives, why else would they say "the place will be sold at a very low figure" - it points to a level of desperation.

They probably had interests in Ireland (Francis must have bequeathed a substantial part of the business to Richard as the eldest son), in England (as Eleanor most likely also had inheritances) and in the Argentina (they left in a hurry and may have retained ownership in the land or converted it to shares - the Argentinian economy was in a 'bubble' at the time). Did something happen to their investments?

It would seem very likely that this was the Baring Crisis of 1890. The crisis originated in Argentina, and was then transmitted back to London via the House of Baring (an investment bank in London - also of more recent fame - that held large amounts of Argentina debt that could not be placed in the London market). I am unsure of the effects on shareholders and landowners, but if they were dependent on income from the investments or on their sale, it seems extremely likely that they were badly effected.

The other question this raises is, having left New Plymouth in July, presumably heading for England or Argentina, why were they back in Taranaki and why was the land in a 'fire sale' 3 months later? It would seem likely that not only had part of the sale fallen through, but also that their financial situation had worsened.

The next (and the last that we have found) mention in the papers of the Guys in Taranaki occurred in December 1891 ...


Taranaki Herald, Volume XL, Issue 9261, 10 December 1891, Page 3
This confirms the accident was very severe, and also seems to indicate that Richard was still held in high regard by the community.

It is hard to judge when the Guy's finally left Taranaki, the last reference is the electoral roll of 1893 when Richard is still listed as a farmer of Hursthouse Road, however this may have simply been an oversight.

The next mention of the family is the birth of Mary Henrietta in August 1893 on the West Coast. What happened between December 1891 and August 1893? Did they return to England, remain in Taranaki or move to the West Coast? Was the family photo taken in England at that time?

Birth of Thomas and Nell, 1890 to 1891
Richard and Eleanor had 2 more children while they lived in Taranaki.
 
G2 Richard John Guy (ca 1857 - 1913) =(2) 1884, Eleanor Josselyn (1858-1898)
 
 
G1 Thomas Gerald Guy (12 May 1890 - 1984)
Eleanor Kate "Nell" Guy (24 Sep 1891 - 6 Apr 1982)
 
Move to Larrikins and Gold Mining, 1893 to 1898
Apart from the children's births and an electoral roll entry, there is no record of the Guy's in Westland until after Eleanor died. The family do have some recollections although aspects have been shown to be incorrect.

Larrikins was a mining town near Kumara (which is South East of Greymouth. In those days it was an extremely rich gold mining area but no sign remains of it now. Life must have been very hard with most people living in tents and 100s of pubs. The photograph opposite was taken ca. 1884 in the Dillmanstown/Larrikins area and clearly shows the rough 'frontier town' conditions. Larrikins has now reverted to bush and no signs of the town exist.

Richard and Eleanor had a further 3 children here.

 
G2 Richard John Guy (ca 1857 - 1913) =(2) 1884, Eleanor Josselyn (1858-1898)
 
 
G1 Mary Henrietta Guy (31 Aug 1893 - 1986)
Bertha Doris Guy (7 Dec 1895 - 11 Jan 1974)
Josselyn "Jock" Guy (14 Mar 1898 - 1981)
 :
It is possible a 4th child was also born here, as the family story of the child killed by a horse says the incident occurred in Kumara. However given the lack of any trace of another Guy birth or death record, it seems more likely that the incident was the death of Cecil in Argentina.

Richard was registered in the West Coast Electorate, Kumara in 1896, with the occupation of Labourer, presumably working in the gold fields.

Eleanor had a hard life, raising her large family with very little maintenance or support from her husband. She had to seek work to raise the money to feed and clothe the children - and eventually had to sell her jewelry.

Dillmanstown
Dilmanstown, ca 1884.
Death of Eleanor, 1898
Eleanor died of postpartum haemorrhage on the 15th March 1898, shortly after giving birth to Josselyn.

The computerised Westland council burial records show an E Guy buried in the Kumara Cemetery on 1 Jan 1896, however the records at the West Coast Historical Museum in Hokitika and the church records both show that she was buried at the Kumara cemetery on 17 March 1898 in plot 45a, block 2.

The grave is unmarked, the center one of three in the photograph opposite.

The Kumara cemetery, located between Kumara and Larrikins, is ironically the only unmined area in what was one of the richest gold-fields in the world.

Eleanor Guy, Grave
Eleanor's grave at the Kumara cemetery?
The family after Eleanor's Death
The newspaper record stars again shortly after Eleanor's death.

The family story is that Richard abandoned his family, and that Eleanor, Kate and Bertha were mothered by a Miss Moffatt at Kaiapoi; Mary was taken in by the Brown family (publicans) on the West Coast whilst Jock was taken in by the Neville (the Midwife) family at Kumara, also on the West Coast. It is thought that Jock was named after his mother by the family who took him in; they knew her name but may not have been aware of the Josselyn spelling. The fate of the remaining boys is uncertain, but all three retained contact with their sisters. 2

The newspaper record however, shows that this is not entirely correct and fills in the story. The following are all extracts from the monthly Charitable Aid Board meetings held in Hokitika, starting about 6 weeks after Eleanor's death ...


West Coast Times, Issue 10979, 3 May 1898, Page 4
Presumably Mesdames Pym, Brandt and Mein looked after the family immediately following Eleanor's death.

At the next meeting Richard was mentioned as not providing support ...


West Coast Times, Issue 11008, 7 June 1898, Page 2

And the next meeting shows that Richard was still in the area, trying to provide support to the family ...


West Coast Times, Issue 11032, 5 July 1898, Page 3

The next meeting shows that Richard was working at Aickens, presumably gold mining. This is a remote district (even now) on the Taramakau River, high in the mountains near Arthur's Pass. With his poor health from the accident in Argentina, blood poisoning and a very harsh winter climate, it is easy to imagine his difficulty in making a living!


West Coast Times, Issue 11055, 2 August 1898, Page 2
More difficult to understand is Mary Josselyn's response. They were certainly not short of money!

By the next month Richard's situation had improved, he was at Jacksons (about 10km down-steam from Aickens) and was earning enough to pay some support.


West Coast Times, Issue 11084, 6 September 1898, Page 4
Again however, it is hard to understand the reaction from the Guys in Ireland. G.W. Guy was Richard's youngest brother George Walter.

It is interesting to note that Richard's family (in New Zealand) believed that there had been no contact with the English families. The refusal by both families to assist, both of who were wealthy, show that Richard and Eleanor had caused a great upset in some way! It is possibly more understandable from the Guys, as they had been supporting Richard's first family, but less so from the Josselyns.

The family were obviously stretching the Aid Board's resources. By October the Kumara policeman and the board were trying to settle the family by sending all but the eldest and youngest (John Canter and Jocelyn) to the Burnham Industrial School ...


West Coast Times, Issue 11107, 4 October 1898, Page 4
... but at the next meeting the family had still not gone there due to the illness of one child. A new name occurs here, the Watsons who apparently adopted John Canter.

West Coast Times, Issue 11139, 11 November 1898, Page 2
It would seem that several of the children were ill ...

West Coast Times, Issue 11162, 8 December 1898, Page 2
The January 1899 meeting confirmed that the children went to Burnham, presumably in December 1898, and that two children had been adopted, although it is interesting to note that the adoption of Jocelyn by the Nevilles is not mentioned.

West Coast Times, Issue 11191, 13 January 1899, Page 4

The remaining entries relate mainly to the board pursuing Richard for debts ...


West Coast Times, Issue 11337, 7 July 1899, Page 4

West Coast Times, Issue 11360, 4 August 1899, Page 4

However in September, Mary Henrietta's adoption by the Browns is raised, seeking Richard's permission...

West Coast Times, Issue 11394, 13 September 1899, Page 2
... which was received by the meeting in November 1899 after which various official confirmations were received ...

West Coast Times, Issue 11436, 2 November 1899, Page 4

West Coast Times, Issue 11494, 9 January 1900, Page 4


West Coast Times, Issue 11518, 6 February 1900, Page 4

In the June of the following year, the board discussed a Guy adoption, it is not clear if they were referring to John, Mary or Jocelyn?


West Coast Times, Issue 11928, 5 June 1901, Page 3
And then in August of 1901, they finally stopped pursuing Richard:

West Coast Times, Issue 11982, 7 August 1901, Page 3

Looking at these articles, can we work out where the children went to?

The October 1898 article refers to "all the children excepting the eldest boy and the baby" being sent to Burnham, in November: "Mrs Watson would adopt the eldest boy" and in January: "Mr Guy's three children were in the industrial school and the other two had been adopted".

However, there were seven children, which were the five referred to and where were the other two? The children were 13, 10, 8, 7, 5, 3 , 0 and so the most likely answer is that the two oldest, John Canter and Horace Seattle were either looking after themselves, were with Richard (unlikely as surely they would have been referred to in the board reports if that was the case), or even that they had remained in Taranaki or elsewhere in the North (perhaps that would explain why all of the boys eventually settled in the North Island?). I have the suspicion that there were other Josselyn or Guy relatives (Suche??) living in New Zealand and so perhaps they were with them?

This would imply that Thomas was the child who was 'adopted' by Mrs Watson.

There was no mention in The Times of who adopted Jocelyn, but family history says that it was Mrs Neville, the midwife at the birth.

The Browns who adopted Mary are probably this family mentioned in the times of June 1899 ...


West Coast Times, Issue 11312, 8 June 1899, Page 2
... and Albert John and Maria Frances Browne (with an e) in the 1896 electoral roll.
Marriage 3 to Emily Elizabeth Marshall 1899, divorce 1910 and death in 1913.
159 Papanui Rd
16/4/1910

Mrs Guy
I received a writ of summons for divorce from your solicitor R. J. Leatham.
I should like to know when the case will be heard.
I am penniless and matters must take their course, but I am sorry.

Yours truly
R J Guy

Letter RJG to EEM
Richard then moved to Christchurch where he married Emily Elizabeth Marshall on 8 August 1899 at St. Mary's Anglican Church, Heathcote Valley. This was Emily's second marriage, her maiden name was Harrison. On the marriage certificate Richard is shown as a Miner.

The marriage did not last long, on 13th July 1901 Emily applied for a separation order on the grounds of desertion, habitual drunkenness and failure to provide maintenance. At the time they were living in Alton Street, Nelson (behind the gardens) and Richard is described as a bookkeeper. In 1910, Emily applied for a divorce and Richard's response was a letter to Emily (right and transcribed opposite). From the style of writing in the letter it is obvious that Richard was left handed.

They were finally divorced on 14 December 1910. Emily Elizabeth died in 1954 in Auckland.

159 Papanui Road was almost certainly a large "gentleman's" residence (Long Cottage?). Presumably he was the gardener there.

During these years Richard probably worked as a labourer, despite the family history which says that he was employed as a Latin teacher. In July 1901 he was described as a Bookkeeper in Nelson (separation papers). He gave his occupation as gardener in the electoral rolls for the Christchurch North Electorate in 1908 and 1911 when he lived at 159 Papanui Road (possibly as the live-in gardener) and in his divorce papers in 1910 he describes himself as a Canvaser in Christchurch.

In his last days he lived at the Tuarangi House, Ashburton, Canterbury, a home for elderly and terminally ill men without the means to support themselves. He died there of cancer of the throat on 9 January 1913 and was buried the following day at Ashburton Cemetery in plot Plot 16, Block 103, an unmarked grave (indicated by the arrow in the photo opposite). His death certificate records him as a Farmer.

The family later apparently arranged for a gravestone, but there is no sign of this today. 2

RJG Grave
Richard's grave at the Ashburton Cemetery
Notes & References
  1. The information on this page comes from a variety of sources including the research of Helen Green, Martyn Guy, Rita Joy and Murray Lynn, the official BDM records in Ireland and New Zealand, church records in Ireland, Argentina (website of Jeremy Howat) and New Zealand, records of the International Genealogical Index and the National Library, New Zealand.
  2. Extract from John Hallum's story of the children of Charles Josselyn. The details were as provided to Helen Green by Eleanor Kate's son, Roy (Holland), and as told to him by his mother.
  3. Partido de Lincoln
  4. British Settlers in Argentina